RootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4176 posts, RR: 51 Posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15153 times:
This year there have been very very few A340 family orders (Virgin:A346 ans Mauritius :A343).
However, the 777 family has had an enormous amount of orders !
Does this mean that the A340 line is definitely soon to go out of production and leave its place to the A350 despite the several years that separate us from its first delivey?
That's a minus for airbus whose aircraft lost the battle against the 777 ?
[Edited 2005-06-16 12:21:52]
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15051 times:
Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter): Does this mean that the A340 line is definitely soon to go out of production and leave its place to the A350 despite the several years that separate us from its first delivey?
It's not going anywhere. The A340 is produced on the same line as the A330 and the order backlog for both models is far from being small.
Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter): That's a minus for airbus whose aircraft lost the battle against the 777 ?
It has been clear for quite some time that the A340 lost the battle. However, there are many operators of the A340 and there are good chances we see repeat orders by existing operators and a limited number of orders by new customers.
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3311 posts, RR: 33 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14979 times:
Actually, I really think that we will rather soon see the end of the A340, but that does not mean that there will be a time when there won't be any delivery, because there still is a significant backlog for the A340.
As for that aircraft, it is true that it did and does not sell as well as the 777, but I would not call it a failure. It was one extremely important step for Airbus, as the introduction of the A340 together with the A330 helped Airbus to become a fully respected Aircraft manufacturer. I do not know whether the program completely refinanced itself, but as it was developed jointly with the A330, I would think that it did. You also have to consider that Airbus had no experience at all in this market before they developed the A340, so the A340 was an extremely important step for Airbus to gain experience in building large Aircraft.
Also, with the A340 Airbus succesfully competed against the MD11, forcing them out of business.
And who cares when Airbus loses against the 777 if they can fight back with an A350? I think it is great to see this industry developing aircraft faster than ever before (A350, 787, A380, 777LR). Lets continue that battle, so that we will get even better aircraft.
767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 14 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14833 times:
With the advent of the A350-900 which Airbus claims will seat around 900, I think the end of the A340-300 is around. The A340-600 will continue to sell and the A340-500 will grab a few tag-on orders to major A350 orders.
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8608 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 14706 times:
Hard think the A350 can be offered with the fuselage as long as the A346. I think the long A340 will live on although at the moment it seems it has lost clearly to the 773ER. Airbus needs to improve the A346 to get ahead, or even, despite its considearbly lower official price-tag.
The A340-300 though sadly seems to be on the way out with the A350 taking over.
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3048 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 14630 times:
As the 350 seems to offer the same seating capacity and range (perhaps even greater) as the 343, it's not hard too think that the 350 will take over the 343 position. I think we can see quite some existing 343-orders being converted into 358/359's.
Gearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 14499 times:
Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter): That's a minus for airbus whose aircraft lost the battle against the 777 ?
What complete nonsense! The A340 by any measure is a successful aircraft, it's just not as successful as the 777 series which is an aircraft that deserves the accolades it gets. As has been said already, the A330/340 family was Airbus first venture into long range, high capacity aircraft and the fact that they produced 2 airframes as part of the same basic program is a magnificent achievement. There are many very happy A340 operators despite the nonsense one reads on A.net. I know many people who prefer the quieter, smoother cabin of the 340 over the 777. It is a shame that for some people the success or failure of an aircraft comes down to whether it wins or losses a sales 'battle' with it's competitors. The fact that Airbus grew from a struggling 'also ran' into the manufacturer it is today is, in part, due to the A340 (in huge part to the A320 series). I seem to remember that the 340 was offered to airlines as a replacement aircraft for 747-200/300 aircraft, as opposed to the more expensive 744. One could argue that the A330/340 series effectively put the 747 and 767 out of business (other than the 744F which still has no competition). It's not a minus for Airbus but a triple plus! It's day may be almost over, but that happens to all aircraft sooner or later.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 8608 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 14427 times:
"I think we can see quite some existing 343-orders being converted into 358/359's."
Are there any A343 orders whose deliveries are that late the A350 could grab them? I don´t think so.
"I know many people who prefer the quieter, smoother cabin of the 340 over the 777."
Yes, me. I love all A340s, recently I´ve been flying business class on a A346. That was the best flight I ever had besides that one-off first class experience on a 744. So quiet, so smooth, so comfortable. Better than a 777 for me, and better than first class on an MD11.
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1962 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14278 times:
I think Airbus is striving to get it right with the A346IGW version, and if the aircraft proves itself as a significantly better performer than the standard A346, then orders will come by the dozens.
Patrickj From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 14033 times:
The A340 and the B777 are different aircraft made for similar yet different missions. The both adopt a workable approach to long range, high density flight, while each retaining unique advantages. The selection of one over the other is a matter of route structure, winds, cargo and pax loads and economics.
To label the A340 as having reached the end of its production life is ludicrous.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7559 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13941 times:
I do see the end of the A340-300 series with the advent of the A350-800/900 models. Thanks to the fact Airbus may try for ETOPS 330 certification and the vastly lower fuel burn on the A350 series compared to the A340, you will see a lot of A340 operators switch to the A350, probably by 2010-2012 time frame.
The A340-600, however, will soldier on, especially with the HGW version and possibly improvements to the Trent 500 engines to lower fuel burn.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13938 times:
The A340 and B777 are direct, head-on competitors. The A340 lost and the B777 has won. The way it lines up: B777-200ER v. 340-300; B777-200LR v. 340-500; B777-300ER v. 340-600.
As late as this fall, Airbus did not believe that the 787 was anything to worry about and simply planned to snap on 787 engines onto 330. Not only has Airbus been forced to develop the all new A350 but it also loses close to all the long-term revenues streams it had planned on from the 330 and especially the 340. This is a radical and nearly sudden departure from their previous long-term strategy. I suspect when they take those photos of the Airbus planes in formation flight for brochures. the 340 will be pushed further and further back.
"What complete nonsense! The A340 by any measure is a successful aircraft,"
Time to wake up and smell the coffee. The 340 has consigned to a premature death by the A350 and B777. You can be certain that Airbus expected it to have a much longer life. I would say it will be considered a failure in the long run unlike it's superb fraternal twin- the A330.
Patrickj From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13858 times:
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 13): I do see the end of the A340-300 series with the advent of the A350-800/900 models. Thanks to the fact Airbus may try for ETOPS 330 certification and the vastly lower fuel burn on the A350 series compared to the A340, you will see a lot of A340 operators switch to the A350, probably by 2010-2012 time frame.
That would still give it a 20 year production run, good by any measure. 330 minute ETOPs not withstanding there are still some routings that can be flown on a more direct routing by a 4 engine vs a 2 engine aircraft. The A340 series has earned its place in history.
JAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12902 times:
Even though I prefer Boeings to Airbus planes as an aviation enthusiast I can say that the A340 is definitely not a failure. It is beautiful aircraft and even though it did not sell as well as the 777 it has some notable achievements. It took away market share from the B747 and if an airline did not buy the 777 they probably bought the A340. I think the longer versions such as the -500 and 600 series will keep to do well, while the A350 will replace older 340 -200 and -300 series. There is also the possibility that newer versions will better compete with the 777-300ER and the 747ADV if it is built, so there is still a lot of potential there. The Boeing 707 sold better than the DC-8 but most definitely the DC-8 was not a failure.
B2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1345 posts, RR: 63 Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12524 times:
Boeing made a little stab at Airbus in their latest Commercial Market Outlook -- they pointed out that when the A330/A340 were launched in 1987, Airbus predicted that 490 A342s and A343s would be sold through 2005. The current A340 Classic order book is at about 240, with little chance of a major uptick, so Airbus has met only half their sales target.
The A345 and A346 definitely reinvigorated the model but probably cost upwards of $3 billion to develop (source). After an early lead, the A345 has been passed by the surge in 772LR orders; its future looks clouded, especially if SQ and EK exchange their A345s for 772LRs. The A346 has done better against the 773ER, but the 777 still comes out ahead in most comparisons (including the order book). I could see another 100 orders for the A346 before the line closes, but the A343 and A345 will probably not be as fortunate.
True, the A340 has been outsold by the 777, but after the initial development problems were ironed out, it did establish Airbus' credibility in the long-haul market and paved the way for the A380. However, I'd say the A330 and certainly the A320 have more to do with Airbus' success in the last 15 years.
WorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12403 times:
Quoting Udo (Reply 1): there are many operators of the A340 and there are good chances we see repeat orders by existing operators and a limited number of orders by new customers.
My sentiments exactly. A perfect example is Air Mauritius who recently announced its intention to purchase 3 more A340-300's.
Beauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12029 times:
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2): You also have to consider that Airbus had no experience at all in this market before they developed the A340, so the A340 was an extremely important step for Airbus to gain experience in building large Aircraft.
Airbus had no experience in the A330, A320, A330, and A380 markets either. Boeing had none in the 767, 777, before they built them. And the 787 is areal leap into unchartered territory.
Quoting Gearup (Reply 8): One could argue that the A330/340 series effectively put the 747 and 767 out of business
WhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11105 times:
Quoting N79969 (Reply 14):
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Take your own advice.
The A330 and A340 families are built with common sections on the same line. Just like the Boeing 737-700 and 737-800. Same with the A300 and A310.
As long as the A330 is in production then Airbus can build any A340 orders it gets, so reports of its death are greatly exaggerated by cheerleaders. A product still on offer is not dead.
Only if it was on a Boeing production line where there isn't the flexibility of (for instance) building a 767 on a 777 line without major factory changes could a product be 'dead'. The 757 and 737 share a cross-section for instance, but were built separately on lines tooled just for one family. In the manner Airbus works in, they would be built on the same line.
(actually not a good example due to wingspan issues but the closest analogy for this purpose)
Glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10749 times:
Quoting Gearup (Reply 8): The fact that Airbus grew from a struggling 'also ran' into the manufacturer it is today is, in part, due to the A340 (in huge part to the A320 series)
Sorry, but it was mostly due to 10 years of unfair development subsidies. We will see where Airbus is 10 years from now. The WTO rulings will change the way Airbus and Boeing operate. Boeing is in a much better position to implement those changes. The inner feuding we now see emerging in the EU will tear Airbus apart. Boeing is the least of Airbus' worries theses days.
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
Mark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10649 times:
The A340 (of whatever stripe) has sort of seen its day come and go, and not least because of crude oil prices' getting up around 50 Euros a barrel. Personally, I'd always prefer flying a quad over a twin, especially if the flight were longer than say about 9 hours or so. But the way things have been going lately the paradigm is simply shifting, and so 777-type longhaul twinjets are becoming the new norm in that flight and capacity category. So even Airbus is simply going to have to adapt to it.
And from an enthusiast standpoint a quad jet maybe looks cooler than a twin too, but then that's of course among the very least of airlines' concerns as they try to keep going in an ever-more-challenging business environment nowadays. So it's sorta sad that the A340 has had a bit of a short run all things considered but oh well, just how it goes.
25 Aerofan: So then what is SRB going to do when AB stop making 4 engine medium capacity ACs? Convert to all 380s. I can't wait to see the PR spin on the 4 engine
26 GQfluffy: Well, I don't know if the A340 was the ONLY a/c that put the MD-11 out of business, but it did help. MD had alot of issues to work out of the MD-11,
27 Wah64d: Its important no to forget that many smaller airlines will not be able to operate heavy twins as the airlines themselves will struggle to get ETOPS c
28 767-332ER: I obviously meant 300 guys, its was early in the morning So forgive me.
29 Beauing: Let me see if I understand Euroland economics. The taxpayers of Europe give subsidies to Airbus so they can turn around and loan money to bankrupt US
30 Elagabal: Oh, my, I'd have to say the MD-11 in business class is / was the most comfortable ride in the sky. So call me a romantic...
31 Udo: Amen. ...well, at least you tried to understand. Thanks! Regards Udo
32 Bennett123: Is there actually a limit to how long a company can be protected by Chpt 11.
33 BigB: A one word for ya answer Yes, when they its time to pull the plug.
35 Beauing: Keep in mind that Chapter 11 bankruptcy is not a government bail out. It's the creditors who take it in the shorts. I'd be surprised if Europe didn't
36 FlyinHigh: So, Airbus should stop the A380 testing and cancel all orders!!
37 WAH64D: There is certainly nothing in the UK that is anything like Chapter 11. Prime example, the Rover car company went bust a few months ago with the loss
39 MAH4546: Airbus is still offering and selling the A300 and A310, and people seriously think the A340's end is near?
40 WAH64D: No, I don't mean anything Mr Smugpants. You mis-quoted me. Please re-direct your post at TheSonntag, author of reply #2.
41 Beauing: From the UK Insolvency Service http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/information/faq/eactfaq.htm Sure sounds like Chapter 11 to me...
42 WAH64D: Are you serious? This is nothing like chapter 11. Its called administration, whereby an administrator is appointed to run the bankrupt company and ge
43 Glom: So what do you believe will be the factor? Will Boeing be five times bigger? Ten times?
44 RJ111: The A343 is only half of the equation. The A330/A340 (-200 and -300) are the same family of planes, they've shared development costs and are designed
45 Beauing: That's exactly what Chapter 11 is... You must be VERY proud...
46 WAH64D: I believe that the company will have to seriously streamline its manufacturing process if it is to survive at anything like 50% of its current size i
47 WAH64D: Well, are you going to make up your mind? Which is it? Try to get it right, that was my statement, not the forum member you have quoted and yes I am
49 Atmx2000: Are you really sure that chapter 11 guarantees the best possible outcome for companies and employees? Companies avoid bankruptcy protection if they c
50 FlyAUA: Funny to see all the Boeing cheerleaders fantasising about the death of the A340. Look it's plain and simple: If the A340 were ready to die, Airbus wo
51 DarthRandall: Don't encourage him by replying. Dang, that's rough. The eighties must have been one hellacious time without it! Unfortunatly, from an airline's stan
52 Beauing: Once again the "quote selected text" feature is not working. Sorry for attributing the quote to the wrong person.
53 WAH64D: I take your point and I agree with your position. However, I am quite certain that Chapter 11 is a great deal friendlier to insolvent companies and t
55 Beauing: Historically STRONG? You have a very short view of history. In 1949 the UK Pound was worth $4.03, today it's worth $1.50! http://www.nationmaster.com
56 WAH64D: In 1949 there were 240 pence in a pound. Today there is 100 pence in a pound and its worth: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1 British Pound = 1.82160 US Doll
57 N79969: "The A345 and A346 have advantages that other aircraft simply do not offer and airlines like these advantages." Like what? Whitehatter, I understand t
58 Jblake1: I'm beginning to think that this site should be renamed to: www.airbusvsboeing.net Any takers?
59 B2707SST: It doesn't work that way; the base unit is the pound, not the penny. On Decimal Day, the penny was revalued from 1/240th to 1/100th of a pound. The v
60 WAH64D: To the best of my understanding, I'm afraid you are mistaken sir. Thats like saying a company is worth half what it was previously after a 2 to 1 sto
61 Skywatch: I like the looks of stretch models, but I think that's a liitle TOO stretched! ----Skywatch
62 B2707SST: As I said above, the pound itself is and has always been the base unit, not the penny. Decimalisation simply replaced the arbitrary and complex subdi
63 Glom: I have to side with B2707SST on this one. The penny was changed, not the pound, hence you get reference to old and new pennies but not old and new pou
64 Airbus3801: I think it's time for you to smell the cup of java! The 340 has been a successful aircraft and established Airbus as a true competition to Boeing in
65 Starlionblue: When Airbus developed the 340, two factors made them HAVE to choose a quad: - ETOPS was not what it is today. - Engines were not yet quite powerful e
67 DCrawley: Oh la la! Really, both are great names! But alas, I have come to a few better ones: www.WorthlessArguements.org www.iHATEairplanes.net and my persona
68 Monteycarlos: Actually WAH64D is right... Administration is far different from Chapter 11. Ch11 bankruptcy legislation provides protection to the company so that i
69 Mham001: Clearly, economics is not your strong suit. First off, the US economy is chugging right along. You can continue to say its not and a few people will
70 Monteycarlos: Why resort to that? Can't you just make your point without flaming him? UPS have ordered and are waiting on 67 of them, as are some other cargo carri
71 Ikramerica: The 757 and 737 do not share a common fuselage cross section, only a common fuselage diameter at "upper-cabin" or pax cabin level at a non-tapered po
73 UAL777: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE????? Can we have ONE...just ONE thread where we can actually talk about the airplane????? Why does every time we discuss
74 SEAPlane10: I apologize, I do agree of the need to keep the topic on track....but I must admit that this attempt (at least what I am inferring from it) at provid
75 Starlionblue: Maybe you mean that triplets and quads will also be encompassed by ETOPS like requirements. But this is already sort of true. And a triplet/quad will
76 PM: Not quite. They're still waiting for just nine more. Then they will have fleet of 53 and that will be all. They ordered 90 and cancelled 37 when they
77 Geo772: As a passenger I prefer the 777, the reason, it gets me to my destination quicker than the 340. I have flown on a 343 and found it a bizarre experienc
78 Scbriml: Well, they managed a sale last month! I'm afraid this is just wrong! If a Mars Bar cost 1/- (1/20th of a Pound) the day before decimilisation, it cos
79 Monteycarlos: Wasn't it 100, and they dropped 37 making it 63? Those 37 being the 10 A380's?
80 Starlionblue: All dependent on the operator, not the plane.
81 WAH64D: As Scotsman I prefer to avoid spending my BRITISH pounds in England wherever possible. Scotland is so much friendlier! There is more than one country
82 Glom: Well I've done some checking with people on this and they side with Scbrimi here. Something that cost a pound the day before decimalisation cost a po
83 A340600: I'm so tired of people complaining about this. This is an aviation site, there's obviously going to be arguments between the two lead manufacturers o
84 Beauing: From my reading of the Enterprise Act it sounds like the company might may or may not be liquidated ...facilitate the rescue of viable companies...wi
85 DarthRandall: Welcome to A.net, dude! Yes there is an inordinant amount of patriotic skirmishing in this place. Take this rediculous arguement about pounds and dol
87 FlyAUA: " target=_blank>www.GoodTopicsTurnedWild.com " target=_blank>www.pencevscents.com You guys forgot about Europe vs. USA But now seriously, while many p
88 DAYflyer: A dubious statement considering the A-350 and 777. Not likely. See the statement above.
89 WAH64D: I did not say that Chapter 11 is a government subsidy. It is as good as a Government subsidy as it removes the right of the creditors to force the co
90 Atmx2000: The bankruptcy laws have been around for quite a long time, and lenders and their armies of lawyers and loan officers know what the rules and risks a
91 N79969: WAH64D, Shareholder equity is wiped out in US Chapter 11 as well.
92 Abrelosojos: = Udo, you are one of the few people on this board I admire for not waving their flag when having a A vs. B debate ... can you please send me a PM an
93 Beauing: Your record speaks for itself.[Edited 2005-06-18 08:24:46]
94 DarthRandall: They've sold over three-hundred of them, 230-something of the older models. Surely the break-even point for an aircraft that shared labor and develop
95 Beauing: But what we don't know is how much they sold them for. If they sold them below cost or for very little profit, we have no idea where the break-even p
96 Oftwftwoab: From the Royal Mint: "The pound retained its value, the penny remained in name and the shilling [=12 old pence] and florin [=24] had been re-denominat
97 Zvezda: If we compare floor area, the A340-600 is much nearer to the B777-200/ER/LR than it is to the B777-300/ER. Sorry WAH64D. B2707SST and Glom are correc
98 Dalecary: I think the future of the A340 will be clear at year's end. There are 4-5 blue-chip orders to be decided in the next 6 months and if the 340 can't get
99 Zvezda: If Airbus fail to win any additional A340 sales this year then it will be clearly dead. However, if Airbus do win additional A340 sales, then it's fu
100 Udo: Not at all. The A350 (as it seems today) will not replace A345 and A346. And there are certain customers which clearly decided to go for the A345/346
101 DarthRandall: An exact break-even figure for the A340 alone is impossible, as I'm sure you well know, given the way the A340 and A330 were designed; you would have
102 AvObserver: Nor right away but there seems to be a clear trend toward twins in all but the 747 to A380 size range as fuel prices rise. Airbus needs to begin consi
103 Zvezda: The result would be a stretch of the A350 with a larger wing.
104 Monteycarlos: Yes, but I wasn't trying to prove that comment right. They have something similar to Chapter 7, not chapter 11. Not even entering into that debate...
105 JAM747: I never said beauty had anything to do with a airline being successful. I only mentioned it because I am an aviation enthusiast and was a compliment
106 Touchdown99: Contradicting yourself, methinks. As has been pointed out over and over again, we are talking about the A330/A340 as different versions of the same a
107 Beauing: I never said the UK had Chapter 11, I said they had something similar. So the statement 'there is certainly nothing in the UK that is anything like C
108 WAH64D: I stand by my post. We have nothing similar to Chapter 11. I do however apologise unreservedly for my ill-informed comments regarding retail prices p
109 Beauing: I'll believe the Senior Examiner in the Insolvency Service, who says otherwise (see reply 96). As well you should. Maybe while your at it you should
110 WAH64D: Please accept my sincere apologies for my comments to which you have taken offence. On reflection they were a bit harsh and I do not wish to foster i
111 AlitaliaMD11: To add another order, Iberia confirmed 5 more A340-600s. Sorry to reply so late into the topic.
112 Beauing: Apology accepted. Thank you. On the Chapter 11 stuff we will just have to agree to disagree. We've already veered way off the topic way too long.
114 Monteycarlos: I'll have to agree to disagree with you also... its just that minor point I don't accept. Chapter 7 yes, Chapter 11 no. But having said that, Chapter
115 Beauing: No they're not. One leads to reorganization and the other leads to liquidation. I guess you don't accept Oftwftwoab's post either.
116 Monteycarlos: Just to clarify what I meant - when I said one in the same I meant they both counted towards issues of "Insolvency" whereas Administration in most ca
117 Joni: Also, a key driver was that their airline customers preferred a quad. According to their research, European airlines were divided between the twin/qu
118 Zvezda: I don't think so. A stretched A350 with a larger wing (to carry more fuel) makes better economic and technical sense.
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