Jamake1 From United States, joined May 2004, 485 posts, RR: 3 Posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10433 times:
From the AFA Website...
United Announces Furlough Effective October 31
Date: August 27, 2008
Ladies and Gentlemen:
This morning United Airlines has announced its intention to reduce our population by 1,550 Flight Attendants effective October 31, 2008. This is as a result of management's decision to reduce domestic capacity in the fourth quarter by approximately 14 percent compared with last year and to cut Flight Attendant staffing onboard United aircraft.
Our Contract provides industry-leading protections against the imposition of involuntary furloughs. Management must first offer the benefits associated with a Voluntary Furlough to offset and potentially eliminate the forcing any AFA Member into an involuntary furlough. The announcement today implements these protections as they are defined in Section 21 of our Contract.
In addition, the letter on page 308 dictates that United Airlines release the Foreign Nationals who are based in Singapore and Bangkok prior to any furlough of an AFA Member. The Foreign Nationals have been given notice and will be released no later than October 30, 2008. This will result in an incremental amount of flying returned to United Flight Attendants. Even as this flying is returned solely to AFA Members, United scheduling will increase line of flying averages and reduce the amount of daily and 30 day ANP. This could impact the schedule flexibility that many of us enjoy today.
Flight Attendants, who choose to volunteer for a furlough awarded in system seniority order, will continue to accrue seniority and receive many benefits. All Flight Attendants can bid for the Voluntary Furlough. We encourage everyone who can afford to volunteer for a furlough to please do so, as it will reduce the number of Flight Attendants who potentially face an involuntary furlough. Some of the benefits to those awarded a Voluntary Furlough include seniority accrual, retention of medical and dental benefits as well as travel benefits.
We want you to know that we are advocating minimizing and hopefully eliminating the potential for any Flight Attendant to be involuntarily furloughed. For additional information, please contact your Local Council Office and check our website for updated Furlough information. If you are interested in bidding for a Voluntary Furlough please refer to the August 2008 Voluntary Furlough Information Package and read it carefully. Voluntary Furlough bids will open on September 8, 2008 and close on September 22, 2008 at 0800 Central Time.
In Solidarity,
Greg Davidowitch, President
United Master Executive Council
Eghansen From United States, joined Nov 2007, 619 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10386 times:
Quoting Jamake1 (Thread starter): In addition, the letter on page 308 dictates that United Airlines release the Foreign Nationals who are based in Singapore and Bangkok prior to any furlough of an AFA Member. The Foreign Nationals have been given notice and will be released no later than October 30, 2008. This will result in an incremental amount of flying returned to United Flight Attendants. Even as this flying is returned solely to AFA Members, United scheduling will increase line of flying averages and reduce the amount of daily and 30 day ANP. This could impact the schedule flexibility that many of us enjoy today.
Wonder how many AFA members speak Thai?
I flew on United from Narita to Bangkok a few years ago right after the employees had been given an ownership share in United. There were no Thai flight attendants on board and none of the American flight attendants spoke Thai. The flight attendants communicated by speaking English in a louder voice hoping the Thais would understand. It was quite entertaining.
LAXdude1023 From United States, joined Sep 2006, 3209 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10360 times:
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1): Incidentally, the BKK and SIN F/A's have the highest customer satisfaction ratings out of all of UA's cabin crew bases...
This is indeed bad news for UA. I flew LAX-NRT-SIN a year and a half ago on UA. The customer service was abysmal on the LAX-NRT leg, but was amazing on the NRT-SIN leg. The flight crew was based in SIN.
Oh well. UA has given many reasons not to fly them recently.
Panamair From United States, joined Oct 2001, 3041 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10296 times:
What a shame..the BKK and SIN based UA FAs are/were some of the BEST FAs not only at UA or at US carriers, but in the world as well! Those bases were closed before (post-9/11) and then reopened a few years later when times were good...hopefully they will come back in the not-too-distant future.
SInGAPORE_AIR From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13361 posts, RR: 18 Reply 6, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10271 times:
Interesting.
I flew United Air Lines from SIN to HKG and back. Though the hard product was absolutely abysmal and the food was grotesque, the inflight service during customer contact times was very impressive and very friendly.
Of course, this sector was served by the Singapore based crew. And of course, in true non-customer-oriented-airline-style, the cabin crew hid behind the galley curtains when the meal and drinks service was over.
But when they were out and about, it seemed very good.
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10200 times:
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1): Incidentally, the BKK and SIN F/A's have the highest customer satisfaction ratings out of all of UA's cabin crew bases..
Sadly, I have a feeling this will effect the overall rating of United Airlines in the Pacific region. The service level of the BKK and SIN bases is the best in the system. I cannot help but to think that Tilton and these decisions are being made in an effort to rush to kill any brand loyalty that is left from anyone to UA.
This most recent decision only goes to further the opinions of many that UA does not care about service or any other aspect of the airline. The furlough of some of the best and most defined quality F/A in the UA system will impact the airlines following in the Asian region. Imagine having to have a disgruntled UA F/A from ORD on an upcoming SIN-HKG trip. The picture is not pretty. In a region full to the brim of other airlines of higher quality and service levels UA is bound to be hit even harder. I pity those that have to fly from SIN-NRT-XXX on UA it will not be a trip riddled with sincere and attentive service.
On a side note there has been discussions of fellow colleagues that are Travel Agents in the Asian region that UA may terminate NRT-SIN, and NRT-BKK in favor of the NH codeshares. There has also been discussion of UA terminating HKG-SIN. In that instance UA would close the BKK and SIN stations. If those rumors are true the F/A base closure would make so much more sense from a staffing standpoint, not a service quality standpoint.
United1 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1985 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10074 times:
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 7): I cannot help but to think that Tilton and these decisions are being made in an effort to rush to kill any brand loyalty that is left from anyone to UA.
Has nothing to do with Tilton in this case, in order to lay off any F/As the BKK and SIN F/A bases must be closed first thats something that AFA required to be in their contract as BKK and SIN F/As are not on the same contract as UAAFA I'ts always sad when they have to let people go however this was not at all unexpected and hopefully, much like last time, there will be enough voluntary leaves of absence where UA does not have actually furlough many.
LAXintl From United States, joined May 2000, 9254 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10025 times:
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1): Incidentally, the BKK and SIN F/A's have the highest customer satisfaction ratings out of all of UA's cabin crew bases...
Sad to see the bases get axed the 2nd time since 2001.
The BKK & SIN crews by far put the AFA crews to shame. Flying with them made the experience seem like flying another airline and not United.
Truly a shame
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 7): This most recent decision only goes to further the opinions of many that UA does not care about service or any other aspect of the airline.
Trust me, UA in not letting them go by choice.
Its a contractual requirement with the AFA that these foreign nationals get pink slips before the AFA members get let go.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9824 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9): Trust me, UA in not letting them go by choice.
Its a contractual requirement with the AFA that these foreign nationals get pink slips before the AFA members get let go.
Excuse me for my uninformed post. However I can see two very tragic plagues at UA. On one end you have Tilton and the BOD, on the other end you have the Unions. Now looking forward and into the future the one key aspect that can save UA is its Asian presence, combined with stellar service.
Comparing SQ service on HKG-SIN, or NH service on NRT-BKK to that of UA ORD and so forth based F/A that may now work those flights and I am left as many others to grieve for the once proud and service oriented airline known as UA.
Quoting United1 (Reply 8): Has nothing to do with Tilton in this case, in order to lay off any F/As the BKK and SIN F/A bases must be closed first thats something that AFA required to be in their contract as BKK and SIN F/As are not on the same contract as UAAFA I'ts always sad when they have to let people go however this was not at all unexpected
In recent years we have seen Asia drawn down with the loss of ORD-KIX, SFO-TPE, SFO-NGO, LAX-HKG, NRT-MNL, NRT-GUM, JFK-NRT, LHR-DEL, DEL-HKG, and the postpone of SFO-CAN. Combine all of these lost Asian presences with the now furlough of some of the very best F/A bases in the UA network and you have nothing short of a Customer Service nightmare. I can only feel for the Intra-Asian travelers of UA.
ATWZW170 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 841 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9811 times:
So how many FA's are based at SIN and BKK? And the 1550 - does that include those based in SIN and BKK? How many US based FA's might lose their jobs?
Althought people are going to take the voluntary furlough at some point they have to come back, right? I thought most companys always had a time frame regarding these leaves...so what happens they they have to either come back or lose their right to recall.....I don't just don't see this as a positive.
What is United doing? A number of bad decisions lately that are just causing employee and customer issues. Do they want to stay in business?
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
RwSEA From United States, joined Jan 2005, 2276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9774 times:
Quoting Panamair (Reply 5): What a shame..the BKK and SIN based UA FAs are/were some of the BEST FAs not only at UA or at US carriers, but in the world as well! Those bases were closed before (post-9/11) and then reopened a few years later when times were good...hopefully they will come back in the not-too-distant future.
I agree - the LHR-based ex-Pan Am flight attendants are all-stars too. Why is it that the foreign FAs provide the better service? Same thing with NW's NRT-based FAs.
It's sad that union rules are set-up so that the best employees are laid-off first. Many of the "senior" FAs could certainly learn a thing or two from them.
Jamake1 From United States, joined May 2004, 485 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9716 times:
In all fairness, if United decides to keep the intra-Asia flying to BKK and SIN, then the flying will likely go to the flight attendants based in HKG and NRT. I think the HKG and NRT-based flight attendants also do an excellent job providing customer-focused service.
United1 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1985 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9677 times:
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 11): In recent years we have seen Asia drawn down with the loss of ORD-KIX, SFO-TPE, SFO-NGO, LAX-HKG, NRT-MNL, NRT-GUM, JFK-NRT, LHR-DEL, DEL-HKG, and the postpone of SFO-CAN.
We have also seen UA add a considerable amount of flights to and from Asia especially to and from China and the Middle East during the past few years. Please keep in mind that a good number of those routes you mentioned were discontinued 8-10 years ago so that is hardly recent.
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 11): Combine all of these lost Asian presences with the now furlough of some of the very best F/A bases in the UA network and you have nothing short of a Customer Service nightmare
Just as a point of clarification you do realise that from 2001-2006 UA did not have bases in BKK or SIN and the flights were staffed by UA mainline F/As that are just as capable as the BKK or SIN based F/As. They sky didnt fall back then and nor will it this time...
ATWZW170 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 841 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9682 times:
The reason the nonUS based flight attendants do a good job is because customer service is actually still something they pride themselves on! I flew UA FRA-IAD, I actually knew a few of the FA's working...they were in the galley just bitching because people were asking for water...the comments I heard were terrible.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
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