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Cincinnati-Dayton "Metroplex"  
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 774 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

In today's print edition of the Cincinnati Enquirer http://news.cincinnati.com/ there is an interesting article regarding plans to merge the two metropolitan areas, creating a metroplex of 3 million people, or the 15th largest metro area in the nation.

Question: With DAY situated in North Dayton and CVG situated to the south, would one airport placed between Cin and Dayton be a better solution (i.e. West Chester, Middletown) in the long term? What would the advantages be, and would Delta kick themselves in 10 years for giving up on Cincinnati?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

IIRC this was kicked around when the plans to replace LUK were originally drawn up --- I seem to remember something about the area near what is now Sycamore HS being a potential spot. That's slightly different since it would definitely be closer to Cincy, but still in that direction.

Specifically relating to your point, I would saw that this might work, if the costs of building an entirely new airport from scratch prove worthwhile. I know others have mentioned the possibility of expanding Wilmington into a Columbus-Cincinnati-Dayton airport, but that's not really ideal for any of the 3. So building an entirely new airport (even if they used an existing GA field, making a major commercial airport would obviously be a much bigger project) would be a massive investment. So while it would work great for us as residents, I don't know if it would work in the sense that it makes economic sense to build the new airport. I'm sure that DL at CVG and FL for instance at DAY would be a little miffed at having to leave their nice enclaves. However, part of me also says that this could be the true "solution" to the airport troubles in cincinnati, as it would be a definitive break from DL's domination at CVG, and thus be a clean slate for any and all (WN, B6, FL, more mainline legacy flights).


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

I forgot to mention earlier: do you know if this is also on Cincinnati.com? I looked after reading your post and couldn't find it on the site, but of course I always reserve the right to be blind   

User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

IIRC, Greater Cincinnati got located to the Covington, KY (thus CVG) area in preparation for the jets in the late 50's. KY US Senator Alben Barkley had considerable influence in DC, and thus that is where the FAA "helped" decide it would be built.

Not sure the taxpayers of either area are too keen on helping fund a new airport. The considerable buildup of the northern KY area south of the river makes a case for keeping CVG as is. Those travelers probably would not like a 40 mile drive to north of Cincy somewhere. Quite a few SE Indiana folks use CVG rather than drive to IND or SDF..easier access. Same hold true for DAY..its' catchment area extends north to Lima, west into eastern Indiana and even east a fair ways as CMH is clear on the east side of Columbus.

All in all.. the airports are probabaly going to stay just as they are.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 2):
I forgot to mention earlier: do you know if this is also on Cincinnati.com? I looked after reading your post and couldn't find it on the site, but of course I always reserve the right to be blind

I looked for the article online and it said it was exclusive to the print edition. I bet it will be posted tomorrow.

I'm originally from Dallas. We hear all the time what an engine DFW is to the area's economy; generating billions of dollars each year. Their huge airport is partly reason why the Dallas Ft. Worth metroplex is so big today.

I don't really think this is an option, at least for the next decade, but it is interesting to consider.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

They should put the new airport by "Touchdown Jesus" there along I-75.   

I don't see it being viable though, even in the long-term. Dayton and Cincinnati are far enough apart that they each serve their own market, although yes, you do have plenty of cross-feed. However, Dayton is a big enough metropolitan area to support its own operation, especially when you consider Wright-Patterson AFB provides plenty of government feed. CVG has also invested a lot in its infrastructure, and with Delta slowly cutting back, they need to squeeze out and continue to use as much of that infrastructure as long as possible to make the investment somewhat worth it.

And personally, after living here in DAB and having to drive an hour and 15 minutes so many times to use MCO for cheaper fares, I'm really looking forward to living in Dayton by this coming summer and only having to drive 15-20 minutes instead. I would hate to have to drive 30-45 minutes to use the airport in the middle. From an additional personal standpoint - for my extended family down in CVG who wish to fly out of DAY still, they can now park their car at my place and I can drive them over to DAY, which wouldn't be an option for an airport in the middle.


User currently offlinejoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

It's kind of similar to the CLE and CAK situation.

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 3):
Not sure the taxpayers of either area are too keen on helping fund a new airport.

I think too many dollars have been spent on improved airport infrastructure that gets underutilized by diminishing presence legacy airlines in favor of their "chosen" megahubs already. (CVG, CLE, PIT, STL, BNA, RDU)


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

DAY and CVG already have a low fare airport IND !!  

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 7):
DAY and CVG already have a low fare airport IND !!

DAY and CVG already have a low-fare airport in DAY. If you're referring to WN, CMH is singificantly closer to DAY than IND, and SDF is closer to CVG than IND (well, airport to airport - true proximity depends on one's location with respect to downtown Cincy).


If they do build a new airport for DAY and CVG, can we please ensure that it has the following:
A) Skyline
B) La Rosa's
C) Montgomery Inn BBQ
D) Graeters Ice Cream
E) UDF for milkshakes


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 4):
I'm originally from Dallas. We hear all the time what an engine DFW is to the area's economy; generating billions of dollars each year. Their huge airport is partly reason why the Dallas Ft. Worth metroplex is so big today.

You cant really compare DFW with Cincinnati and Dayton.

DFW is a metro area of about 6.5 Million. Its the 4th largest in the country.
Cincinnati and Dayton would make up just under 3 million.

Dallas and Fort Worth are 31 miles apart downtown to downtown and from West Dallas to East Fort Worth, its just under 20 miles.
Cincinnati and Dayton are 50 miles apart downtown to downtown. Not sure how far noth Cincinnati is from southern Dayton.

DFW has gained about 1.13 Million new residents since 2000 and is the fastest growing since 2000 in the US (by sheer number not percentage).
Metro Cincinatti gained about 155,000 new residents and Metro Dayton lost about 12,000 since 2000.

Im not saying that a joint airport might not spur some growth. But I think it wouldnt add all that much on top of what they have. Plus DAY and CVG are in decent locations to serve their cities. An airport thats 25 miles away from both would be less convenient.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
Plus DAY and CVG are in decent locations to serve their cities. An airport thats 25 miles away from both would be less convenient.

  

CVG isn't BOS, but it isn't DEN or DTW or STL either.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Census Bureau metropolitan area definitions have little to nothing to do with air service needs; Raleigh and Durham don't suddenly need 2 airports because there are 2 MSAs.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinejbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/EDIT03/2070327

User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Deck Chairs... Titanic...

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7693 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 11):

I still dont think you can compare Cincinnati and Dayton with DFW or Washington/Baltimore.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

When studing the demographics and commute patterns of people it would make sense to put an airport between the two, but with the money required it would seem doubtful that politicians would at this point. And in smaller metropolitan areas like that you would have to have some way to force the airlines out of the current airport to make them move to the new one. Cincy is not big enough to support two airports like Houston, Dallas, Chicago etc.

Side note: "metroplex" is a marketing term not something used originally by geographers and city planners.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 14):
And in smaller metropolitan areas like that you would have to have some way to force the airlines out of the current airport to make them move to the new one.

That reason is almost always the inadequacy of the existing field (IAH and DEN, among others), political pressure (DFW), or some combination thereof (ORD).

CVG and DAY are more than adequate to meet the region's air service needs, and I don't see the political pressure happening.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2008 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2635 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
CVG and DAY are more than adequate to meet the region's air service needs, and I don't see the political pressure happening.

  

What is really needed are upgrades to I-75 through downtown Dayton and Cincinnati and across the Ohio River. Other then that, everything is totally adequate for southwestern Ohio in terms of air access.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 16):
What is really needed are upgrades to I-75 through downtown Dayton and Cincinnati and across the Ohio River

There's quite a bit of work going on on 75 just north of downtown Dayton, which should help some when it's finished. I think they are straightening it out some.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2525 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
There's quite a bit of work going on on 75 just north of downtown Dayton, which should help some when it's finished. I think they are straightening it out some.

They're also rebuilding interchanges to make them more free-flowing. When I visited the Air Force museum in December there was quite a bit of construction going on for this.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2008 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Quoting dvincent (Reply 18):

That's good. I haven't driven through there in a couple years as every trip down that way I've flown. More free flowing is what is needed down there especially with the US 35 interchange in Downtown Dayton. If you get that fixed, would be fairly simple to get through there.

I have a family member who flies regularly and he uses both airports actually and he lives in Fairborn. In this case, I actually think this set up is the best.


User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3788 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 3):
Same hold true for DAY..its' catchment area extends north to Lima, west into eastern Indiana and even east a fair ways as CMH is clear on the east side of Columbus.

My family, who lives an hour east of CMH, has used DAY as a secondary airport for years. A couple of our trips have originated there thanks to lower fares.



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