rjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13583 times:
Sorry if this was discussed before.
"The Space Shuttle Discovery will be delivered to the National Air & Space Museum’s Udvar-Hazy Center in April. It will be transported by NASA atop a modified Boeing 747 and is scheduled to land at Dulles on Tuesday, April 17 (date is weather dependent). The museum has a special webpage about “Welcome Discovery” events which are planned. We will update this post with more information about the Dulles arrival as it becomes available."
Space shuttle discovery is replacing the Enterprise at IAD's Udvar-Hazy center.
United727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 385 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13452 times:
Where is Enterprise going? Will the Modified, Former AA 747 continue to fly after the shuttles are moved to their final resting places?
Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13258 times:
Enterprise is going to New York City for display at the Intrepid museum. Tentative schedule has it being flown up on Monday, April 23.
michiganatc From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11981 times:
So the question's are:
-What time will it be arriving in IAD
-What will Discovery be doing between April 17th when it arrives and when Discovery is deliver to the museum on the 19th?
-Will it just sit atop the NASA 747 until the 19th?
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11791 times:
Operational reasons will dictate that. Weather is a key issue as the pathfinder aircraft 100 miles ahead will determine the route. Departures from KSC is also based on many operational reasons hence i would not hold my breath for a deaprture on the 17th.
Quoting michiganatc (Reply 3): -What will Discovery be doing between April 17th when it arrives and when Discovery is deliver to the museum on the 19th?
If it gets there on the 17th, the two days are built in to carry out the demate.
Quoting michiganatc (Reply 3): -Will it just sit atop the NASA 747 until the 19th?
until the cranes,take her down.
At KSC there is a special demate/mate structure. At IAD, they will be using two cranes to do the job hence there will have to be a lot of prep work.
wagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 505 posts, RR: 18 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11481 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 4): Operational reasons will dictate that. Weather is a key issue as the pathfinder aircraft 100 miles ahead will determine the route. Departures from KSC is also based on many operational reasons hence i would not hold my breath for a deaprture on the 17th.
I understand weather is a big factor in the operation, but do you think the odds of it arriving on the 17th are really that low? The Smithsonian has been hyping the April 17 arrival date, and April 19 transfer date for a while on their website. I know its quite out of the Smithsonian's hands on when it arrives, but a delay would seem to be pretty bad publicity.
I'm planning on getting down to IAD for its arrival via the 747 come hell or high water. I was planning to book a hotel room very shortly for the night before so I can be there early to set up (I'm driving down from PHL). I'm wondering if I should wait now. Do you know if there's a proposed timetable on the 17th assuming good conditions and no unforeseen delays (ie: departure time from TTS)?
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11331 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW ARTICLE EDITOR
Quoting wagz (Reply 5): I understand weather is a big factor in the operation, but do you think the odds of it arriving on the 17th are really that low? The Smithsonian has been hyping the April 17 arrival date, and April 19 transfer date for a while on their website. I know its quite out of the Smithsonian's hands on when it arrives, but a delay would seem to be pretty bad publicity.
Yes. I would give it the odds of a coin toss. I am merely stating the principal factors that standout at this point - i.e. 3 weeks out
Reason 1:
Weather is an unknown. Only can be sure after the morning weather brief. The orbiter CANNOT encounter rain.
Reason 2:
Mating the orbiter. There has been a drastic cut in the staffing available. In the old days (i.e. STS program days), there would be three shifts running and plenty of talent around. Post STS program, it is a skeleton crew. If there are any issues, there is no longer a 2nd shift or 3rd shift to keep the ball rolling. In a lot of the transition and retirement operations, items have been slipping for this reason. There is a reduction in resources etc.
The orbiters had a remarkable way of making sure they did stuff on their schedule hence anybody who has been around them will tell you the first rule is the qualifier "No earlier than..." The Smithsonian may just get the first taste of what is like to make a shuttle run on a schedule. It would have been better if that press release said, " Discovery will arrive at Dulles, no earlier than April 17th". That is what the press release would have said if NASA PAO wrote it.
In a good case scenario, the weather will be nominal and the mate will occur as planned. I hope so too as as I will be suffering through it as well at the mate/demate device. But I am not a gambling man, so i am not putting any money on it. I hope I am wrong though.
Quoting wagz (Reply 5): Do you know if there's a proposed timetable on the 17th assuming good conditions and no unforeseen delays (ie: departure time from TTS)?
The best I can tell you at this point is that it will be an early morning (first light departure) from KSC. Upon arrival of NASA 905 on 04/09, i will have a better idea however this will be really known only the day before for reason given above.
The cruise speed of the SCA + Orbiter is about 250 knots at 15K; range is 1000 miles. There is the flight down the Mall planned, too. So one can extrapolate from there but if the SCA has to fly around any weather systems then this track will be longer.
wagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 505 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11152 times:
Thanks for the information Suresh, it is appreciated. I had no idea the orbiter couldn't encounter any rain whatsoever. At this point I'll just plan for the 17th and hope for the best. At least if the weather forecast looks bad from a couple days out I may still be able to cancel my hotel room. One way or another I'm going to get down there (work be damned) even if it means leaving PHL at 5AM the day of to see it.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10335 posts, RR: 40 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11070 times:
I wonder if it is worth wile making a Transatlantic trip for the event. There will probably be a Zillion people at the IAD NASM and around.
Wonder what would be the best viewing point? The NASM tower can only accomodate so many and I am sure they will close it to the public or it would be an invasion up there.
I guess better have a scanner in hand if going to IAD to see the 747/Discovery combo landing.
They are not going to go around the airport for the pleasure of all in the passenger terminals are they?
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10938 times:
Suresh - A question:
Will they plan to use Runway 1R/19L only, in order to minimize taxiing? I am banking on that, also because that would give everyone in attendance the best view. Here's hoping for a 1R arrival....
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10789 times:
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Quoting captainstefan (Reply 10): Will they plan to use Runway 1R/19L only, in order to minimize taxiing? I am banking on that, also because that would give everyone in attendance the best view. Here's hoping for a 1R arrival....
Taxiing is not an issue. The footprint is the same as a 747. I have seen the SCA land in the opposite direction of the demate device at KSC and then do a U turn (KSC runway is 300 feet across) to back track to the device. Wind direction will be decision. I can probably get a better idea when i talk to the crew once they get to KSC sometime after 04/09.
jfidler From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 300 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10572 times:
I was at Udvar-Hazy earlier this week and talked to a staff member there about this. He said they are expecting the largest crowds they have ever had, and it will likely top the record-setting crowds they had on opening day. He also said that IAD-area hotels with rooms facing the runway/museum are sold out or almost sold out for that day.
I believe the parking lot holds around 2,000 cars and my guess is that will fill up quickly. I'm thinking my strategy may be to park at the normal IAD parking lots and then take a bus to Udvar-Hazy.
n92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 252 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10459 times:
I thought it was strange that T-38's would be doing a "mapping" run, but reading the posts above I think it is awesome that they plan on flying it over the DC area (over the mall is tremendous).
What a great event, too bad it has to come due to the shuttles being retired.
Just wondering, now that the shuttles will never go back to space, why can't they fly through rain? Would the rain damage the exterior visibly? Its not like they will ever need the heat protection again.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10431 times:
Quoting n92r03 (Reply 13): Just wondering, now that the shuttles will never go back to space, why can't they fly through rain? Would the rain damage the exterior visibly? Its not like they will ever need the heat protection again.
Rain will erode the tiles. Why fly it thru rain if they don't have to?
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eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10427 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW ARTICLE EDITOR
Quoting n92r03 (Reply 13): Just wondering, now that the shuttles will never go back to space, why can't they fly through rain? Would the rain damage the exterior visibly? Its not like they will ever need the heat protection again.
The real reason is that the thermal blankets will absorb water and the SCA will have a wet heavier orbiter than it took off with. It is approximated the change in weight will be considerable enough to effect the flight dynamics of the SCA/orbiter configuration.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10405 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 15): The real reason is that the thermal blankets will absorb water and the SCA will have a wet heavier orbiter than it took off with. It is approximated the change in weight will be considerable enough to effect the flight dynamics of the SCA/orbiter configuration.
Interesting, I've never heard that explanation. Seems odd then that the shuttle can sit out on the pad, in Florida humidity, in thunderstorms, and for months at a time, without ill effect. I'd think that after sitting thru a FL thundershower, blankets would be popping off in orbit as all that absorbed water turned to steam.
NASA explains it this way:
How come planes can fly in the rain but something as advanced as a shuttle can't?
I can understand why you would ask that question. The shuttle cannot fly in the rain because those tiny little water droplets of rain when they hit a tile and the shuttle is traveling at say 300, 400, Mach 2, at those kinds of speeds, it acts almost like a bullet hitting that tile. The tiles are very brittle and fragile on their outside, so they can't stand to hit raindrops going at high speeds. So I can understand why you'd be confused about this very high-tech thing that can't do something as simple as fly through the rain. But that's why we can't do it.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10395 times:
The info you cite is referring to a flight orbiter. Discovery is no longer a flight orbiter. It is a museum artifact.
There are two rules that apply to SCA+ orbiter + rain. The rule you mention is no longer in operation. A heavy orbiter due to water absorption is the one that is now effecting the flight.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10389 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 17): There are two rules that apply to SCA+ orbiter + rain. The rule you mention is no longer in operation. A heavy orbiter due to water absorption is the one that is now effecting the flight.
So there would magically be no damage to the tiles simply because they are museum artifacts and not flight hardware?
Are they changing out all the "flight" tiles for "museum artifact" tiles? Why not do the same for the blankets?
Check out the test report on how the tiles play with rain in flight:
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10365 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 18): So there would magically be no damage to the tiles simply because they are museum artifacts and not flight hardware?
Are they changing out all the "flight" tiles for "museum artifact" tiles? Why not do the same for the blankets?
Check out the test report on how the tiles play with rain in flight:
Immaterial as TPS tests that would not have been done if they were flight orbiters have already been done. Preservation of an immaculate TPS has not been a priority and they are not in the flight state anymore either.
The wet blankets would effect the center of gravity and weight of the load carried by the SCA hence the precautions. They are not trying to save the blankets but dealing with operational details.
For the safety of the SCA, flight crew and the completion of the mission, the limiting factor is the water collection. There has been enough grievous damage/museum preparation done to Discovery already hence damage to the TPS would be a minor issue.
A few missing/cracked tiles is not going to make or break the display and the general public would never know the difference once replica tiles are put in place.
bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10347 times:
1R - Kmart parking lot in Chantilly.
19L - Exxon station on Old Ox Road just west of Highway 28.
Please note you can't see the actual landing, but it will be flying low over these points.
1C/19C, 1L/19R The roof of the west side parking garage. (I saw the very first A380 landing at IAD from there.)
If I get the day off I will drive up there for this event.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10268 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 19): Immaterial as TPS tests that would not have been done if they were flight orbiters have already been done. Preservation of an immaculate TPS has not been a priority and they are not in the flight state anymore either.
The wet blankets would effect the center of gravity and weight of the load carried by the SCA hence the precautions. They are not trying to save the blankets but dealing with operational details.
For the safety of the SCA, flight crew and the completion of the mission, the limiting factor is the water collection. There has been enough grievous damage/museum preparation done to Discovery already hence damage to the TPS would be a minor issue.
A few missing/cracked tiles is not going to make or break the display and the general public would never know the difference once replica tiles are put in place.
Nice article, great photos. by eksath BTW. Says nothing about flying the SCA/Orbiter combo thru rain. Nor does it explain how these blankets can sit on the pad for months on end, absorbing loads of water with no effect, yet rain must be avoided to avoid water absorption by the blankets during flight on the SCA.
The reason they avoid rain is to prevent erosion of the tiles...
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10012 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW ARTICLE EDITOR
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 21): Nice article, great photos. by eksath BTW. Says nothing about flying the SCA/Orbiter combo thru rain. Nor does it explain how these blankets can sit on the pad for months on end, absorbing loads of water with no effect, yet rain must be avoided to avoid water absorption by the blankets during flight on the SCA.
Thanks. The reason i posted the article is to point out that the Discovery is now an artifact. Most people are unaware of the extent of the process.
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 21): The reason they avoid rain is to prevent erosion of the tiles...
You seem as confident and dogmatic about this point as when you claimed the three OPF were going to be torn down until that was proven otherwise. Feel free to believe your point however i feel the same liberty to inform the public of the other reasons as well.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9): They are not going to go around the airport for the pleasure of all in the passenger terminals are they?
I highly doubt that. They will probably do a flyby of the airport.ATC usually requests this. Though, it may not be done if that will mess up the pattern.
Quoting wagz (Reply 8): At least if the weather forecast looks bad from a couple days out I may still be able to cancel my hotel room.
I will post info as soon as i am aware.
Quoting captainstefan (Reply 10): Will they plan to use Runway 1R/19L only, in order to minimize taxiing?
I will talk to the flight crew about which runway they plan to land on. In the operational days, this kinda of info (including routing) was classified. I am not sure if it can be released even now. I will check. SCA arrival at KSC is tomorrow afternoon around 530pm EST (that is not classified)
michiganatc From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9917 times:
Thank you, eksath, for the information and updates. I am sure there are many of us following this post for your information
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9903 times:
You are correct michiganatc, yes thank you eksath for the updates. I plan on going to watch them leave the cape as i only live 30 min away. Ive watched them come in before always impressive.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 9809 times:
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Update 1:
I had a long discussion with the flight crew and here is a quick summary.
1. Wheels up from KSC at 0700H on 04/17 (assuming everything else goes on schedule,etc). Direction of takeoff will be determined in the morning. 10000 feet of runway is required. A south takeoff is preferred as she will not waste time doing the turn to fly over the beach and visitor center.
2. Flyby of Cocoa Beach etc. at 1500ft.
3. Passing SR 520, she will aim for the KSC visitor center - Rocket Garden.
4. Will continue with flyby of VAB and straight down the runway- South to North direction at 250 ft.
5. Pathfinder will be the NASA DC-9 Vomit Comet.
6. A NASA T-38 will be the photo chase
7. Fly by of Dulles. (all factors staying constant as planned currently)
8. Landing has been requested by the Smithsonian on 1R (it will be that if nothing comes up)
9. Mall flyby (subject to operational reasons).
I will update and add/change info as the days progress.
wagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 505 posts, RR: 18 Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9667 times:
Thanks for the information Suresh.
I'm not sure if you can get this information from the crew, but assuming IAD is on the 19s will the SCA still land 1R (unless of course the tailwind component is above operational limits)? Weather forecasts show a cold front approaching for Tuesday evening so I suspect winds may be out of the SW ahead of the front. If the arrival date gets pushed back a day or two due to that front, I would assume NW winds Wednesday and maybe Thursday behind the cold front.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9499 times:
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Quoting wagz (Reply 28):
I'm not sure if you can get this information from the crew, but assuming IAD is on the 19s will the SCA still land 1R (unless of course the tailwind component is above operational limits)?
The flight engineer told me that in the scenario you mention, it will be based upon how this would mess up the pattern. i.e. if it can be done without difficulty, then it would be done. I would assume ATC has been planning for this hence they will be ready to bring her in on 1R (if everything else is within operational limits)
Quoting wagz (Reply 28): If the arrival date gets pushed back a day or two due to that front, I would assume NW winds Wednesday and maybe Thursday behind the cold front.
As of a few minutes ago, everything seems to be on track. Discovery just pulled in to the demate device. So the schedule is holding. The more technical part (i.e. lift and mate ) start about now.
wagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 505 posts, RR: 18 Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9480 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 29): The flight engineer told me that in the scenario you mention, it will be based upon how this would mess up the pattern. i.e. if it can be done without difficulty, then it would be done. I would assume ATC has been planning for this hence they will be ready to bring her in on 1R (if everything else is within operational limits)
I'm sure IAD Tower and Potomac Tracon have everything worked out. I'm an ATC up at PHL and we bend over backwards for special operations all the time. Just last week we had to pull arrivals off the localizer for a C130 flying over the Phillies home opener.
I was just checking the NWS tabular forecast for Tuesday (not that its likely very accurate right now) and oddly enough the SW winds shift late Monday evening to the W and eventually WNW by Tuesday morning. Tuesday's high temperature has also been cut by 10º or more, so it seems as if there's already some sort of frontal passage Monday evening now.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
WestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2114 posts, RR: 8 Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9155 times:
Decisions, decisions. I'm torn between going down to Gravelly Point to catch the DC Mall flyover or heading to the Udvar-Hazy parking lot to see it come in at IAD.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
n92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 252 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9071 times:
Eksath,
Thank you so much for the updates, we all appreciate them, great pics as well.
What is the best place to view the fly-by on departure. I'm in Florida and thinking about making the drive early in the morning. Any/all suggestions would be appreciated.
gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9054 times:
Quoting WestWing (Reply 36): Decisions, decisions. I'm torn between going down to Gravelly Point to catch the DC Mall flyover or heading to the Udvar-Hazy parking lot to see it come in at IAD.
That is a tough one, but if you come to IAD, you are guaranteed to see the SCA. Any type of operational setback and they will scrap the flyover. I work in Chantilly so my job did the decision making for me...
If this thing happens, do you have any knowledge of where along The Mall the pair will fly? I work on The Mall near the Capitol, and I'd be surprised if it got up that far, so where do I need to go to see it?
And what are the odds that the Mall flyby is scrapped altogether?
Finally, what time is the pair supposed to arrive in DC?
michiganatc From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9060 times:
Well, there is no turning back for me now. Booked my flight, hotel and car rental for tomorrow. This thing better happen!!!
After a year of decommissioning, NASA's space shuttle Discovery will make her final flight, to Dulles International Airport — site of the National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center — on the morning of April 17, weather permitting.
Charles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1309 posts, RR: 5 Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8961 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 39): If this thing happens, do you have any knowledge of where along The Mall the pair will fly? I work on The Mall near the Capitol, and I'd be surprised if it got up that far, so where do I need to go to see it?
An article in the Washington Post (sorry, no link as it was in the printed edition) listed both the National Mall and Capitol as sites planned for the flyby, as well as DCA, Andrews AFB and the National Harbor. My guess is that it will be visible from anywhere within that area. I work near the Washington Monument and plan to watch them from Constitution Ave. Hope it all goes as planned!
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 1 Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8957 times:
Quoting n92r03 (Reply 37): What is the best place to view the fly-by on departure. I'm in Florida and thinking about making the drive early in the morning. Any/all suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm going. In the past I've parked on State Hwy 402 Max Brewer Parkway (the east west road just north of the runway) and got some great shots. Tomorrow I'm going to the KSC Visitors Center since eksath said they want a southerly departure and the winds are favoring that tomorrow (e/se at 5 knts), which means you'll see the SCA fly close on its outbound path and then directly overhead on its way out. The visitors center opens at 5am tomorrow (I called them to confirm) just for this event and it looks to be the prime non badged spot so that's where I'll be.
MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10335 posts, RR: 40 Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8923 times:
Quoting Charles79 (Reply 42): An article in the Washington Post (sorry, no link as it was in the printed edition)
It's all here
Posted at 06:40 AM ET, 04/16/2012
Shuttle Discovery coming Tuesday, send us your pics
NASA says they hope to fly Discovery at about 1,500 feet over the Mall, Reagan National Airport and National Harbor. It may also be seen from the Old Town Alexandria waterfront; Long Bridge Park, located between I-395 and the railroad tracks near Crystal City and Gravelly Point; and off the George Washington Parkway, near National Airport.
There is one T-38 s as photo chase. There were two sitting on the ramp today. They are
NASA923
NASA907
Other may arrive too. I will know in the morning but i may be too busy to post this data then. I have one final date with Discovery at about 5 am. One last good bye to an old friend.My time with her will be over and probably my last pictures of her will be over the SLF.
Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 43): Tomorrow I'm going to the KSC Visitors Center since eksath said they want a southerly departure and the winds are favoring that tomorrow (e/se at 5 knts), which means you'll see the SCA fly close on its outbound path and then directly overhead on its way out.
South departure is now confirmed as per flight meeting.
She will depart 15 make a left turn over the NASA industrial area,KSC HQ, Causeway,CCAF,Port of Carneveral,Cocoa Beach,PAFB,KSC Visitor Center,SLF...and so long.
It was a sight as she got backed out. Engine start tomorrow will be emotional. I hope i can take the pictures.
michiganatc From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8763 times:
I was told that it is going to do a low pass on 1R at IAD and then circle to land 19L. But I see the wind is forcasted out of the NNW at 12kts, so I doubt that will happen.
aislepathlight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 562 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8734 times:
Haven't been on the board in a long time, but love that I can get in the fantastic inside information here. I go to school in DC, so hopefully I can drag some of my friends with really nice cameras out to help document what proves to be a wonderful day.
"We have slain a large dragon, but we now live in a jungle filled with a bewildering variety of poisonous snakes."
captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8653 times:
Quoting michiganatc (Reply 47): I was told that it is going to do a low pass on 1R at IAD and then circle to land 19L. But I see the wind is forcasted out of the NNW at 12kts, so I doubt that will happen.
Would love to see that, gear up and clean winged. Fat chance at all that though, I'll take what I can get!
BlueElephant, I am happy to see you here! Please bring us some good pictures! Enjoy the experience!
I did not know you was a Space Shuttle buff! They were faster than F1 for sure!
There was no chance our friends on wheels would ever be able to catch up with that kind of speed!
F1 will never come close.
Nothing more exciting than attending a Space Shuttle launch at KSC with a causeway view for us humble souls! Gone but never forgotten.
RIP Space Shuttle Discovery
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
Sinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1533 posts, RR: 3 Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8518 times:
I will say that over the years that I've watched NASA-TV they have never lost the nack for cutting from a great camera angle to cruddy angle. The fly over of the Visitor Complex was true to form.
Good thing they always seem to pull something great together in postproduction using all the raw footage.
Can't wait to see her land at IAD.
jollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 180 posts, RR: 0 Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8473 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 46): One last good bye to an old friend.My time with her will be over and probably my last pictures of her will be over the SLF.
A good time as any to thank you for the awsome pictures you posted here over the years: you made us proud and a little more familiar with that glorious achievement of mankind that your "old friend" has been. Your passion made us feel like a distant "part of the family" too . Don't be too sad: every good thing has to go, and the next step will be another adventure.
I'm watching the feed but I don't have sound (old computer at work)...what's the estimated time for her to do the flyby around the Nat Mall? Any updates?
contrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7985 times:
Where do you think they'll fly into for the Intrepid delivery?
redzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 292 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7587 times:
Perhaps this is a silly question, but are any of the orbiter's control surfaces active during ferry flights?
4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2851 posts, RR: 10 Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7534 times:
Sigh...
WJLA, fire every one of your camera operators.
I anxiously watched every bit, but seeing it in the air but no longer functional gives it an odd "Weekend at Bernie's" feel. Makes it sad and a little hard to watch.
gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7487 times:
That was something special. Two fly by's over DC and IAD 1R! The pilots had no interest in landing whatsoever. Will post some pics a little later from both locations...
JOshu From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7451 times:
That was awesome. I completely forgot about it until I looked up in the sky and could not make sense of what was flying overhead. Then it dawned on me in the Costco parking lot what it was and a feeling of sadness and slight frustration with the whole government budget overcame me.
BlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 6 Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7408 times:
Just got back from Udvar Hazy, the place was completely full by about 9am. We got two flybys one straight over head and one straight down 1R, followed by a big loop, and then landing full stop.
The aircraft is parked on the ramp closest to Udvar Hazy near the threshold of Runway 30.
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 1 Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7346 times:
Made it down the Visitors Center just as she was taking off to the south, after her run down the beach she came directly overhead as planned, circled the VAB and did a final low pass down the runway headed north. The DC-9 was doing orbits just west of the runway and a T-38 was off the left wing. NASA Huey was circling the complex as well.
Always simply amazing to see that combo in flight, breathtaking.
Thanks a million for all the updates and info eksath, it was invaluable!
captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7312 times:
Absolutely unreal. There was a crowd of pedestrians after they closed the parking lot that gathered at the entrance/off-ramp from Hwy 28 probably a few thousand strong. Police had their hands full but did an excellent job keeping media separate and in front.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10568 posts, RR: 53 Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7313 times:
In DC and Alexandria, people slammed on the brakes near National Airport and the 14th Street Bridge complex (freeways!!) to watch the Shuttle fly over. I snagged some pictures, which I will edit and post this evening. They're not great, but they are history.
MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10335 posts, RR: 40 Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7267 times:
Great pictures all of you.
Thank you for posting them. Bring in more!
I am more modest as I could not make the trip.
Must have taken over 100 screen shots I took from NASA TV HD and the city flyover on CNN when NASA TV was off broadcasting limits.
What an event!
You can still see the SCA/Discovery combo on the runway with activity around her and airplanes going by the runway quite close. Just saw a British Airways 777. Don't have any idea if they are taking off and landing.
Must be an eerie sight for those with window seats on the proper side of the airplanes.
PC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2262 posts, RR: 5 Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7228 times:
Am I the only one that thinks the combination of the 747 and Space Shuttle actually looks like they were designed for each other? I mean, they look like they were meant to be that way.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7135 times:
I agree, PC12Fan, the combination looks good together. It's been so long I don't remember, but I imagine part of the design critera for the shuttle was to be able to fit on a 747 (or other similar carrier aircraft) for transport. If so, they really were made to be that way.
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 1 Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7091 times:
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 83): Am I the only one that thinks the combination of the 747 and Space Shuttle actually looks like they were designed for each other? I mean, they look like they were meant to be that way.
I agree they look great together but I think that is a very lucky coincidence. The SCA Combo does look much more aesthetically pleasing than the AN-225/Buran combo, though I do like them both.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7029 times:
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Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 78):
Thanks a million for all the updates and info eksath, it was invaluable!
Here's a couple of my shots:
Glad my info helped! I got atleast one picture of the SCA/103 and the Visitor center. The pass was high but after the 360 to align with the runway, i had a decent shot. I will go through my pictures of the last few days and start posting them as i process them
In the meantime, you might want to check this one out as it has the visitor center.
mke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2327 posts, RR: 5 Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7006 times:
Wow I can't believe that I didn't find out until now that this was happening today. I wish I was there to see it, but given the fact that I'm currently enrolled in school on the other side of the country that idea probably never would've been realistic. When is Endeavour supposed to be ferried over to California?
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
Thanks to the screeners for the very fast response on the priority screening. Also, very special thanks to Suresh for his thorough updates on this thread and his top notch photos from today and throughout the Space Shuttle program. I look forward to your and everyone else's photos from this historic day.
I unfortunately missed the first low approach while I was stuck in traffic on Hwy 50 about 1/2 mile or so east of Hwy 28. I caught a glimpse of something large and white with another white something on top of it while sitting at a red light behind a large SUV. I never expected there to be quite that many people at IAD, so my drive from Philadelphia took a little over 4.5 hours (a tad over 3 hours going home after getting lunch). I managed to park on the shoulder of Hwy 28 with the other throngs of spectators and then hoof it half a mile up some ramps and on to the Air and Space Museum parkway overpass. The view of the second low approach there was spectacular and almost completely unobstructed. I had to upload that shot from the full stop since the T38 chase plane unexpectedly and perfectly lined up in my viewfinder (they were wider/higher for the low approach and well out of frame).
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1416 posts, RR: 5 Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6698 times:
What is being done with 905NA when the shuttles are at their new homes? I know that 911NA is being used for parts for SOFIA. I'd love to see her parked next to Atlantis, but I know that won't happen.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 6556 times:
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Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 91): What is being done with 905NA when the shuttles are at their new homes? I know that 911NA is being used for parts for SOFIA. I'd love to see her parked next to Atlantis, but I know that won't happen.
Marc
She will become the flight proficiency aircraft for the SOPFIA crew. This is because they dont want to risk the SOFIA aircraft with all her expensive equipment on board for flight training.
She will also be used on follow on NASA projects as they come into fruition. Also, she will be rented out. Already she has been used twice by Boeing to transfer their Phantom Ray UAV from factory to testing location.
905NA has relatively low time and low cycles unfortunately with her weight issue, i doubt no one would want to buy her.
Somewhere, i have her details and will dig them up.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 6558 times:
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I have not really had time to go through my pictures but here is a small sample:
At engine start in the morning at KSC. The calm before the storm
The T-38 photo chase heads out the threshold. It took of a few mins before 905. This is the ramp at KSC. The DC-9 is the pathfinder.
The hanger in the foreground was used for the Columbia reconstruction hence the STS-107 mission logo is on the front of the building. This is where they brought her back to.
Rotating with the NASA security helicopter waiting to meet her.
I put a few more on my flickr site and will continue to update that site over the next few days as i process more of the pictures.
NoWorries From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 523 posts, RR: 1 Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 6492 times:
I was at work and missed it. My wife, who has -zero- interest in the space program, said that she saw it while walking the dog -- "It flew right over our house, really slow and low" she reported. We live about 5 miles roughly south of 1R. Oh well ...
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 6445 times:
Anybody that's a shuttle fanboy (and I count myself in this category) should check out Wayne Hales blog now that Discovery is in the hands of the Smithsonian...
Mr Hale was the Space Shuttle Program manager during the post Columbia accident stand down and his words are telling.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 6424 times:
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Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 95): I haven't checked, however I believe 905NA has got to be one of the oldest 747s still flying.
It may be but it does not have that much use (in my opinion). I looked over her numbers the other day and it was low. Again, i am not an expert on commercial jets.
Anybody have any idea how many cycles and airframe hours a comparable 747 would have done upto now (assuming it was still flying)? Anybody know the numbers on current 747s,too? I would be very interested in these numbers as it would give me a reference point.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 6404 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 97): It may be but it does not have that much use (in my opinion). I looked over her numbers the other day and it was low. Again, i am not an expert on commercial jets.
NASA bought her when she was still young and didn't fly her nearly as strenously as an airline would. I suspect her airline sisters would either be scrapped or have a 100000+ plus hours.
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Kiffy From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 88 posts, RR: 0 Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 6268 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 98): i hear Pluto98 went fuel critical at the end Not surprised, she had a busy day....
Pluto 98 even had an extra tank. Pluto 99 didn’t and landed about half-an-hour before the other.
Pluto 99 (N955NA) final for runway 1R:
Pluto 98 (N967NA) final for runway 30:
Here's a photo I snapped of the crowd that was gathered at the closed Udvar-Hazy exit just as the shuttle left my field of view. I liked how we ended up on that side of the action, we had the sun on our side (kind-of).
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6190 times:
Quoting Kiffy (Reply 102): Pluto 98 even had an extra tank
That's a travel pod - used for baggage, extra gear, etc. No fuel.
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MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10335 posts, RR: 40 Reply 104, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6137 times:
What a joyful ceremony at the IAD NASM today to welcome Shuttle Discovery to her new home!
There was quite a flurry of Astronauts who all flew on board Discovery including Mr. Senator Astronaut John Glenn and many other remarkable ladies and gentlemen mission specialists, pilots and Shuttle Commanders - with Senator Glenn noting that Discovery was retired prematurely during his speech in front of the public and invited guests.
Shuttle Discovery could find no better place than the IAD NASM for her retirement.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Pluto98 landed runway 1C. The local controller had offered 30 to begin with but as he turned over the off-ramp to the museum local cleared him to land 1C instead. Beats me as to why, maybe for wind- it was 350@15 when I checked the AWOS moments after.
gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5996 times:
Here are a few pics from the events this week. They are cell phone shots and the ones over DC are especially bad, but it was pretty cool to see the SCA over Capitol Hill. Don't let the Anet mods see these. I may get perma-banned...
gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5993 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 103): Quoting Kiffy (Reply 102):
Pluto 98 even had an extra tank
That's a travel pod - used for baggage, extra gear, etc. No fuel.
Seriously? I'm not doubting you, but why not just carry that in the SCA? Seems like the chase planes would want to be a light as possible...
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 107): Seriously? I'm not doubting you, but why not just carry that in the SCA? Seems like the chase planes would want to be a light as possible...
Yes, that is a travel pod - the T-38 is not equipped to carry an external fuel tank. Usually, the pilots will carry their overnight bag and such in it. They may not have had the same itinerary as the SCA, so they carried their own bags. Plus, I heard NASA charges a checked bag fee on the SCA...
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5980 times:
Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 107): Seriously? I'm not doubting you, but why not just carry that in the SCA? Seems like the chase planes would want to be a light as possible...
Doing so would be an invitation for Murphy to strike! Can you imagine if the T-38 had to divert to an airport that could not accept the SCA? Poor T-38 pilot would be stuck in his flight suit, possibly for several days... Plus, as Moose points out, the 2 aircraft may not even be on the same itinerary...
[Edited 2012-04-20 06:33:32]
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Gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5949 times:
captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5777 times:
Quoting eksath (Reply 112): So the original photo chase T-38 got swapped in flight.
or was there any other T-38 along with her at IAD?
A T-38 took off at about 9am as the crowds were gathering and disappeared to the south, so make of that what you will. I believe there were two T-38 splaying chase but it's kinda like the twins in school - you never see them both at once, so you don't know for sure if there are actually two of them.
eksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1154 posts, RR: 27 Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5655 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW ARTICLE EDITOR
Quoting captainstefan (Reply 113): I believe there were two T-38 splaying chase but it's kinda like the twins in school - you never see them both at once, so you don't know for sure if there are actually two of them.
lol... good point. I will talk to the guys at JSC to see if they can fill me in.
On a side note, i shot some phone footage out there on the ramp at approx 515H as N905NA was being preflighted. This is very bad video footage and only reason i am posting it here is to give you guys a behind the scenes type view of the calm before the storm. I am not a video guy hence this was just for fun.
You can see three T-38s (only one scrambled out of here as the photochase) . The Dc-9 is also being preflighted.
MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10335 posts, RR: 40 Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4518 times:
I was at Washington Dulles on Friday - I flew on the first Boeing747-8i Frankfurt-IAD-Frankfurt turnaround inaugural commercial inaugural flights with a few hours in between. I went straight to the IAD National Air and Space Museum to see Space Shuttle Discovery.
What a thrilling exhibition that is! The lighting is perfect and plentiful not to miss out on the tinyest details. There is plenty of room in the hall to go around the orbiter and an upper gallery to view her from above..
Seeing Space Shuttle Discovery so close and personal and in such perfect environment is mesmerizing.
Will post a couple of pictures later.
Concorde F-BVFA looks as good as ever, so does the SR-71... Two sexy beasts!
I know I will be back!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
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When is Endeavour supposed to be ferried over to California?
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