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Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Naritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

What's the slowest speed at which a jet aircraft can safely land? I think the normal landing speed is 140 knots? Can it be slower?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:

767driver From United States, joined Feb 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Much slower....an empty 757 lands at around 110kts

474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 2829 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter):
What's the slowest speed at which a jet aircraft can safely land? I think the normal landing speed is 140 knots?

Harrier and the F-35B can land at zero (0) knots.

PeachAir From United States, joined Dec 2000, 239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

Depends on the type of jet.

The Cessna Citation (500/501/550/560) etc all the straight wing aircraft can land at 110kts.

Also - when flying in the jumpseat on Transbrasil 767-200 (back in 1997) from GRU to GIG we approached the GIG airport at 129kts. (We also use 5 degrees flaps for tkeoff - something we dont do here in the USA)

THX

WILCO737 From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 4160 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

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Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter):

An empty MD11 is pretty close to that 140. maybe 138 or so. but with MLAW we approach with 173 knots Wink

WILCO737 (MD11F)
airplane

If it ain't Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas), I am not going.

AAH732UAL From United States, joined Mar 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

Heck IIRC the A330 has a Vref that can get as low as like 100kts I think.

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Pilotpip From United States, joined Sep 2003, 2149 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

Vref on the 170 can get down below 110 when it's light with flaps full.

DMI

DeltaGuy From United States, joined Sep 2001, 4095 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

V-ref on the G-V, with those massive wings, can get into the low teens, 115 or so. On the G-IV with much smaller wings, it's 15 knots or so higher.

DeltaGuy

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Jgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.

767driver From United States, joined Feb 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

Quoting PeachAir (Reply 3):
Depends on the type of jet.

The Cessna Citation (500/501/550/560) etc all the straight wing aircraft can land at 110kts.

Also - when flying in the jumpseat on Transbrasil 767-200 (back in 1997) from GRU to GIG we approached the GIG airport at 129kts. (We also use 5 degrees flaps for tkeoff - something we dont do here in the USA)

THX

5 degrees for takeoff is standard at my airline on the 757/767. Why would it matter if you're here in the states or overseas? It's usually company specific

Moose135 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 630 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 8):
I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.

Approach speed on the Tweet was 110kts for instrument approaches, 100kts on final in the overhead.

KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!

Goldenshield From United States, joined Jan 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Now, by jet, what are you implying? A turbojet, turbofan, or turboprop? And, are we talking single, or multiple engines?

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Tb727 From United States, joined Jun 2005, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

A light Lear 23 is down around 93 KIAS. Depending on the wing a Lear 24/25 can have a ref of anywhere in the 117 range to 147 I think it was.

A nearly empty Falcon 20 is 110 KIAS or 107 KIAS, depending the engine differences and the 2 different travel options on the rudder (23 deg vs 30 deg).

Most of the time we "cross the fence" at Ref+10 and touch down at Ref.

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Rwessel From United States, joined Jan 2007, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Several people have built self-launching sailplanes with small jet engines. Those would have a landing speed in the mid-40kt range.

G4Doc2004 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

The Citation Sovereign (CE680) can be landed down in the 92-95KT range depending on weight. I flew the sim at ICT and got it down to 89KT, but I don't think that would ever happen in a real scenario. Just a couple of mechaincs in Flight Safety MX training goofing around at 2AM........

"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail"--Benjamin Franklin

SlamClick From United States, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 9938 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

A quick glance at a "not for operational use" chart gives this:

Boeing 737-300; Flaps 40; Landing Weight of 78000 lbs ^(A) gives me a V_SO ^(B) extrapolated from V_REF chart is 82.3 knots.

Same airplane at 132300 lbs, same flaps, the speed is 112.3 Knots.

(A) A weight probably typical for empty airplane, two pilots, enough fuel to make a takeoff and landing with reserves.

(B) Stall speed, or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration.

Unofficial, but fairly trustworthy. Of course the 'point three' on each number is a bit finer than I can read off the old round dial so you won't catch me anywhere near those numbers except on rollout.

Ward86IND From United States, joined Apr 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15):
Boeing 737-300; Flaps 40; Landing Weight of 78000 lbs (A) gives me a VSO (B) extrapolated from VREF chart is 82.3 knots.

Same airplane at 132300 lbs, same flaps, the speed is 112.3 Knots.

I find this extremely hard to believe....132,300 lbs on the 733 is quite a load...i would expect a VREF in the 140 knot range at least...

of course that's my non-expert opinion, maybe some B737 pilots could offer their insight

Live your dream.

SlamClick From United States, joined exactly 5 years ago today! , 9938 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 16):
I find this extremely hard to believe....132,300 lbs on the 733 is quite a load...i would expect a VREF in the 140 knot range at least...

You are quite right.
You are talking about V_REF
I posted V_SO which, again, is stall speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration. (in this case Flaps 40)

V_REF is standardized at 1.3 V_SO so the actual numbers were:

78000 lbs V_REF 107 knots. (107 / 1.3 = 82.3)
132200 lbs V_REF 146 knots (146 / 1.3 = 112.3)

V_APP where it is called that, is V_REF plus wind or any other required additive.

Now with regard to the o/p question regarding minimum speed at which one can safely land, well that is a discussion with more to do with definitions and expression than with flight ops matters. Some (non airline) operators might use an approach speed of 1.1 V_SO which, assuming competence and due care is "safe"

When does one "land" the plane. I've had a touchdown speed of about 67 knots indicated after an approach with a V_REF of well over a hundred knots. The engines were stuck in a high idle condition and I got in ground effect and probably even had a measure of "effective weight reduction by thrust vectoring" as well. We just wallowed along just off the ground unable to get it down but we were a very long way from running out of runway. Safe? Sure, or I would have gone around. (not safe in this case)

[Edited 2008-08-26 11:02:11]

[Edited 2008-08-26 11:05:15]

2H4 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 7250 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

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Quoting Tb727 (Reply 12):
2 different travel options on the rudder

What are the benefits to each travel option?

2H4

Intentionally Left Blank

Ward86IND From United States, joined Apr 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
You are quite right.
You are talking about VREF
I posted VSO which, again, is stall speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration. (in this case Flaps 40)

Oops sorry...i didnt see the VSO there. now it makes sense

Live your dream.

MHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

Just want to throw in a not yet mentioned type: YAK-40

I have no clue how low it´s minimum speed is but would expect less than 100 kts (even its cruise speed is less than 300 kts ...)

Maybe someone could check out this type ???

CWAFlyer From United States, joined Mar 2005, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

A friend of mind who is a retired TWA captain told me that if the 727-100 was light enough, 103 knots Vref was not unheard of.

BigSaabowski From United States, joined Jul 2008, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 8):
I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.

Any jet can do 100kts GS with the right headwind.